I have been on Tramadol (Ultam) myself many years ago. That was one really tough drug to get off of. I was also taking very high doses for a long time. I went through withdrawal many times from them. You would think I would have learned the first time, being how hard it was. It took a good month to feel totally right. About 3 weeks of feeling pretty bad. It was basically like detoxing from opiates but you also have the head zaps too, like when you come off an anti-depressant. At one point I was on Tram and vics, percs, together. My family wanted me to go to rehab and I knew I couldn't because of my job. I quit cold turkey and went to work with severe wd's. I have no idea how I did it but I guess when you have to and put your mind to it it can be done. I first started out with a Tramadol addiction before I ever got into the heavy stuff. I did the opposite of you. I went on to the heavy stuff to help get me get off of ultram (which I don't suggest) you'll be running in circles since I later wound up taking both together and the Tram didn't work anymore. It was just a quick fix to help stop the ultram wd but in the end I did a cold turkey like I mentioned.
I was clean for 2 months! This was in the middle of my 10 year addiction to opiates. When I relapsed I went on to even heavier stuff like oxy's, H and Fentanyl patches. I wound up finding a sub doc and I'm now going through what I feel is an addiction but much safer. I think the problem is that I've been on sub for two years and I'm not used to wd's anymore. I used to wd from opiates about once a week and go to work sick as hell. It was like my body got used to wd'ing and now I'm afraid of even the slighest bit of uncomfort. Plus, knowing I get prescribed a bottle of 75 8mg tabs a month doesn't help. A VERY short term and LOW dose detox with sub would probably be best. You don't want to get hooked on it like me! Don't get me wrong, it probably saved my life, it got me away from all the low lives I was hanging with at the time and let me live a "normal" life for the last two years but now I'm struggling to get off sub like you are with the Tramadol.
You can read more about what I'm going through under the thread "Suboxone Side Effects".
suboxone is 50x stronger than morphine--taking it for a tramadol habit of 6 pills a day is utterly insane. i can not encourage you enough to forget the sub!!! i was addicted to ultram too---i had 6 grand-mal seizures but i was taking 40--50 a day. taking sub for 6 ultrams is like swatting a fly with a bowling ball. it's swapping a very small habit to a huge habit that is very close to methadone and it is a 100x times harder to get off of!!! taper off the tramadol by 1 pill a week and you'll be much better off. you'll feel like crap for a week or 2 and it will be done and over with. get some clonidine from your dr. (this is an old b/p med that is great for opiate withdrawl) and get some immodium, and a few sleeping pills. sub is for people with huge heroin, methadone, oxy, habits. any dr. who would give this powerful opiate to a person taking 6 ultram a day should lose his license--period!
I think the point jschooly is trying to make is that she cannot get off the tramadol. Tapering one pill a week sounds peachy, however she has tried and can't do it.
I agree with Tele - A very short term and low dose of Sub sounds like a good solution for you, jschooly. I too, have tried many times to taper and/or detox, with no success. I am entering Rehab on the 14th (July) and will finally get ahold of this addiction. I am a mom, wife, employed as well and understand how you feel about this... "I am simply an addict."
I live in Toronto and since Sub is not available in Canada yet, I can't even consider it, however I would if it were available. For you, I wouldn't take it for the long term, as you aren't at a high enough dose to justify. I would, however seriously consider it for a short term detox. I've heard it is the "wonder drug" for addicts. I have also heard (many many times) that it is very hard to get off. Some people will take it for the rest of their lives, but they are ok with that - while others do not want to take Sub forever, and find it hard to taper or stop.
Now, please don't think I am assuming your addiction is trivial - addiction is addiction, an addict is an addict - but you don't take as much as I did (or others have, who are on Sub) so just think about it, perhaps get a second opinion if you have the opportunity to see another Sub Dr. but it seems like it would help you :)
Whatever you decide, we're all here to help, and listen :) From one mother to another, we always keep our families in mind when we make a choice of this magnitude, so perhaps you can look at the side effects and see if it sounds like the right choice for you.
Take it easy, and I hope you're doing well today :)
This is what I was afraid of. I have been reading about really tough w/ds from Suboxone and I fear they may be worse than 6 Tram a day. I think you are probably right. I will have to get the discipline and help hopefully of a Higher Power to let go of the Tram little by little. I have be trying to do that but my addict has been winning. However, I am really beginning to see that my choices are limited and I do believe that Sub may be "swatting a fly with a bowling ball." I am going to give this some very serious thought.
Thanks.
[QUOTE=kellibear;3626385]suboxone is 50x stronger than morphine--taking it for a tramadol habit of 6 pills a day is utterly insane. i can not encourage you enough to forget the sub!!! i was addicted to ultram too---i had 6 grand-mal seizures but i was taking 40--50 a day. taking sub for 6 ultrams is like swatting a fly with a bowling ball. it's swapping a very small habit to a huge habit that is very close to methadone and it is a 100x times harder to get off of!!! taper off the tramadol by 1 pill a week and you'll be much better off. you'll feel like crap for a week or 2 and it will be done and over with. get some clonidine from your dr. (this is an old b/p med that is great for opiate withdrawl) and get some immodium, and a few sleeping pills. sub is for people with huge heroin, methadone, oxy, habits. any dr. who would give this powerful opiate to a person taking 6 ultram a day should lose his license--period!
detoxing off 50 ultram a day was horrible, but for me, the worst part was the anxiety. if you could ask your dr. for a few benzo's and some clonidine, you will be ok. you're really not taking enough to where the physical part will be that awful. but that anxiety is awful! have you considered going to na/aa? i strongly urge you to try--it is a huge help to talk to people (face-to-face) that are going thru the same thing as you. you'll get alot of support and advice. it just makes me ill to think someone would go on a powerful opiate to get off ultram!! a good, knowledgeable dr. will tell you the same. you would just start a much much worse addiction!! and also, have you considered going in-patient? you would probably only need a week to detox, and it would really be worth the money. please keep in mind, sub is basically the same as methadone--a powerful opiate with a very long half-life--it can take weeks or months to get off it and feel half way human again. tramadol also raises serotonin levels, so maybe a ssri anti-depressant would help--i'd ask the dr.
I have a Tramadol habit of 6 + a day at 50 mg for about the last 5 months. Before that I was addicted to Vicodin at about 6 a day and thought I would wean myself off of Vic with the Tramadol - HA!! I have tried tapering the Tram and start to get that black depression and of course, I bring my dose back up! I now have a Kaiser drug professional who is willing to put me on a short Suboxone Detox but I have read SO MANY scary things about the Sub that it makes me just as afraid as the Tramadol. I am thinking I should just try tapering on my own again while attending NA. I go to AA 4-5 times a week and have not had a drink or other drugs (beside Vic & Tram) in over 10 years.
Any thoughts or suggestions about the Suboxone would be appreciated. I am in a mell of a hess. PS. I work, am married - my husband knows and is supportive but my school age daughter has no idea and I don't want to worry her with this - she has "never seen me drunk" so I am trying to maintain my daily life while detoxing.
Thanks for anyone reading this and for letting me ramble on so long
I wonder if you would have to be in Tramadol withdrawl to even take the sub?
I think Tramadol may have a long half life also since when I first started taking it and would stop, I'd feel ok until a few days later. As my addiction to it progressed the time period before I needed more not to feel bad was in hours rather then days. Also, this doctor is willing to prescribe you a very short detox with sub? Every doc that I know that prescribes sub wants big $$$ for the first visit and then wants to see you weekly for a certain amount of time. I'm not doubting you, just curious.
Two things concern me here.
1. Will you go into wd if you aren't in Tramadol withdraw first? When I first got sub, it was off the street and I took it to early from my last shot of H (I wasn't dope sick yet) and went into the worst wd I had ever felt!
2. If it does work and you feel a buzz from the sub, the addict in you might convince you that you need to be on it. That buzz will only last a short time if you do even feel it. I tried chasing that buzz for a year! LOL! ..thinking I'll feel that way if I take another. I would take two at a time trying to get high from it after I had already taken my morning dose of 1.5-2 8mg tabs.
I went through Tram wd so many times and a few things that helped me get through it were Melatonin tea and Chamameal tea (spelled wrong?) for help sleeping and anxiety, plus lots of exercise, hot baths, etc. It wasn't easy and I went through it so many times, plus I had to work in these wd's. Also, I don't know if the sub would help with the head zaps. You might just have to ride that out unless an anti-depressant would help but then do you become dependant on those? I had a hell of a time coming off Paxil but Lexapro wasn't to bad. I weaned slower with the Lex, so..
BTW- your post here is really helping me! It's making me remember what I did and went through and how I detoxed from this med and other opiates with nothing sometimes. I'm really gonna put my mind to it to get off this sub!! I've been thinking it's impossible when it really is posssible. I was NEVER good at weaning with any drug. It was as much as I could take until there was no more. If I did try to wean, it would be for a very short time until I caved and took a handful of whatever. It's even been hard for me with the sub and the sub isn't getting me high! If you do the VERY short and LOW dose detox make sure your Tramadol connection is cut off! They say the hardest part is not getting clean but staying clean and I'm proof of that! I would get clean only to relapse a few weeks later! How ever you decide to get clean just make sure you cut your connections. I'm sure you know this from AA/NA.
This is just my opinion!!!! ... but I think sub really should only be used for people that are on heavy opiates (H, oxy's etc.) that have failed at recovery many times. People like me, who just could not stop no matter how hard they tried. I'm sure I'd still have a lot of friends if they were able to afford it and some that have died before it was even released in the US. I must have went through wd's a million times. I'm not saying Tramadol is easy to get off of, actually it was a very hard and lasted longer but I don't see 7 a day life threatening. If your able to take only 7 pills a day, I think that's pretty good. I had to eat handfulls at a time and many times during the day. I could not control myself and when I saw the bottle getting low I'd try to tapper but it didn't last long. I'd wind up eating them all and going cold turkey! Same with the vics, etc.
Have you considered a rehab? They can put you on other stuff that will help and not be as addicting. Or, if they do think your a canidate for sub, they will give it to you in low doeses for just a few days and that would probably wipe the Tram right out of you! I think taking sub longer would just be trading something for something much worse.
Regarding your internet access to Tram. Your gonna have to tell your net Pharm that your an addict (though they didn't care when I did and kept calling until my Ex told them she will sue them and that I'm an addict) maybe you can threaten like that after you have warned them your an addict. They wouldn't give up! Called my house after I had told them online and phone I was an addict! They want the $$$ and don't care. I was buying a ton online and also got them prescribed from my doc and friends wife who worked at a doctor's office where she would steal tons of samples.
I've been trying to cut down on sub and went a little to fast. Yesterday my legs got real restless and I took a full 8mg tab way before my next dose but I only take a quarter of one last night at dinner when I would normally take a full 8mg. So, I guess I am progressing. ..but I did do ok before with tappering only to go back and over my prescribed dose. So, you see, this stuff is very addicting too (for me anyway). Some people can do the slow tapper though but there are few success stories I've read where they totally got off it. It seems lots of people get stuck at 2mg or so. I wish I could get that low! Hopefully I will this year or next, whatever it takes me.
Agian, good luck with whatever route you take but I just wanted to tell you a few more things that might maybe change your mind.
I spoke to the Kaiser counselor yesterday and he and the med doctors decided that I probably do not qualify for the Suboxone detox because my habit is not yet THAT huge. I am to go in to see the med doctor and she is going to prescribe something to help me detox and they want me to attend a program. I do not know what they have in mind but it is probably quite a bit milder than the Sub. I have called and left a message with the doctor for an appointment and am now waiting for her call. This may take a few days before I actually go in because, as you probably know, Kaiser is pretty busy and you have to be an advocate for yourself. So today I am just getting by again kinda waiting around for her to return my call.
That is a horrible story, Kelli, about how the pill people call even after you tell them you are addicted. I will have to decide in my own heart that I do not buy pills, one day at a time, just like i do not buy or use alcohol one day at a time for over 10 years!!!! Thanks for the warning about the pill pushers though.
Good luck with getting off the Sub. I am a firm believer in the magic of 12 Step programs, of some kind of higher power, but mostly in perserverance and hope. Both you and emsmom sound like you are on a positive path and I am living proof that if you just keep trying you will make it. I was a serious alkie and I had many, many relapses but I just kept trying. Eventually, you will be off the Sub and I will be off the Tramadol. It will happen. It's just a matter of time. Even with 10 years sober off alcohol I have learned a tough lesson about addiction. Hopefully, I will be able to use this experience in the future to help someone else as BOTH OF YOU ARE DOING FOR ME.
Thanks so much for all of your positive support and I'll report back about Kaiser.
