- anxiety cause muscle twitches 12th October 2003
... husband (who is very supportive) and also being on Paxil CR, I don't have the pinching anymore.
Boxx...
- Suffering from Anxiety for years 11th October 2003
... panic disorder for about 8 years. In the past I took Paxil and Ativan and currently Im taking Lexapro and Xanax...
... i know i can't be on it forever. I also restarted paxil again 5 days ago. and I'm going to therapy ,starting...
- Benzo addiction 11th October 2003
... Now that i'm having troubles again, I am beginning Paxil again. It still hasn't kicked in (it's only been ... 2 at night before bed. This is in addition to my Paxil . well, I don't want to be too drugged on a benzo ... should stay on this drug. The doctor said until the Paxil kicks in (usually it takes 1 to 2 months for the Paxil...
... (except for Gracie's doctor)
Also, watch out for Paxil , it has turned on some people. So if for some reason...
... Klonopin. My dr said I could take Klonopin until the Paxil kicks in (which should be in 2-3 weeks), then I assume ... she meant I would taper it down? I just hope Paxil alone, when it kicks in, will do the trick. this...
- Feel anxious all the time--can't help it--is this GAD? 10th October 2003
... after 2 years of fighting it, I'm finally taking Paxil . It really does help. Please consider trying a med...
... everybody, for your support in this.
Cathy, to get on Paxil , what did you do? Did you go see a regular physician...
- OVERWHELMED!!! 10th October 2003
... have it done. I want to take the effexor. I took paxil a couple years ago, before I was this bad, and it ... someone like me. You would think that since I took the paxil w/out trouble, that I would be able to take the effexor...
- anyone tried clarocet? 8th October 2003
... had any feedback on it (good or bad). I was taking Paxil and decided that for me, it was time to stop. I was...
- Electric Jolts Anyone? 8th October 2003
... those electric shocks when I was trying to get off Paxil , as soon as 2 days would pass without it I would start...
... babys in the car found out after two weeks of going of paxil this went away and never had them again....
... them "brain zaps". i get them when i don't take my Paxil for a day or two... bad, i know!...
- Help!... is it coming back? 3rd October 2003
... so they said.
Anyhows, I was giving clonazepam and paxil ... they did help, though very addictive. I tried to ... while I was going through the process of 'detox' of paxil and clonazepam.. I was told it was roughly a month...
- Could GAD lead into social anxiety? 2nd October 2003
... lot. I just hope i can find a better medication. Paxil cr isn't working to well.. been on it over 6 months...
- Paxil to Prozac...HELP! 1st October 2003
... paxil and prozac are both SSRI antidepressants and the swap...
- Anxious teen! 1st October 2003
... anything anymore. im trying to live with it. i take paxil and they did recommend counceling but i refuse to...
- light-headed 30th September 2003
... everything may be psychological, and wanted to put me on Paxil . I was hesitant about this because I felt maybe I ... everyday activities. I began to ease myself off the Paxil because I did not like the side effects.
Then after ... Meclizine, Methylprednisolone, Naproxen, Ultracet, Avelox, Paxil
Tests taken so far: EKG, chest X-ray, heart enzyme...
- Anyone taking Paxil CR for anxiety? 29th September 2003
... Hey Philp, I have been taking Paxil for about 10 yrs. Not the one you take just regular ... paxil . I take 40mg a day. My son who is 15 takes the paxil ... I do get anxiety, its not as bad as it used to be. Paxil is very addicting. i have tried to get off it and ... I can`t. I know that Paxil has helped me a lot. I used to be a very high strung...
... same with me. i take paxil and my attacks are controlled. but lately with all...
- I want to feel normal 29th September 2003
... want to change to help make this go away. i am on paxil and it is nothing to be ashamed of. so what, thats...
- Fateful disease from years of abuse 26th September 2003
... led to more disaster. So I saw a doc who put me on Paxil , I hated it! So I got off that and started Zoloft...
- Paxil, Lexapro, Zoloft 24th September 2003
... Hi,
I couldn't handle Prozac yet I found Paxil a great help.
I believe it is correct that intolerance...
- Hypochondria? 23rd September 2003
... finally went to the doctor for anxiety and he gave me paxil . i haven't been that crazy with all the diseases but...
... say much. She just told me I should probably take Paxil , and she prescribed a medication for acid reflux. ... different options instead of just wanting to put me on Paxil right away. Speaking of that, he didn't agree with ... the other doctor that Paxil would be the best option. He said if I did want to ... medication, he would recommend Wellbutrin. He said Paxil has more significant side effects that he thought...
- afraid to go out :( 22nd September 2003
... I too suffer from it and panic disorder....I take Paxil CR 25MG... Go see someone and get on some kind of...
- What is a pdoc? 21st September 2003
... thru it is generally involved in recovery
see the paxil website, this med a prozac type antidepressant is...
- Tightness in throat and Trouble Swallowing? 21st September 2003
... the usual symptoms as do everyone else. I'm on 20mg Paxil once a day.
Recently i've been having trouble...
... swallowing problems are common from anxiety, the paxil should eventually reduce anxiety, however if recently ... started, paxil can actually make your anxiety worse
for a while...
- Does anyone fear dying from cancer? OCD 20th September 2003
... thought i was going to die.it wasnt fun. i am now on paxil and i havent had an attack since. i have learned that...
- 24 hour anxiety attacks 19th September 2003
... I am having 24 hour anxiety attacks.
Tried , Paxil , Buspar , Lorsapam , Zolfolt.
Nothing helps.
HELP...
... tablets are fakes and have no medical effect at all.
paxil and zoloft can cause panic attacks if recently started...
... I am having 24 hour anxiety attacks.
Tried , Paxil , Buspar , Lorsapam , Zolfolt.
Nothing helps.
HELP...
- Paxil, Zoloft, or Effexor for SAD? 19th September 2003
... paxil is being heavily promoted for SAD but actually is ... wont really be able to tell yet
most people come off paxil OK but a small number do have problems, these dont...
- Here's My Story; Any Advice? 18th September 2003
... to the small store in town. The doctor has him on paxil cr 25mg and Ativan . But it just doesn't seem to be ... working. The ativan does calm him down but the paxil isn't helping. He only takes the ativan when he feels...
... counselor who says he needs different medicine. That the paxil should have worked by now and she gave him some breathing...
... maybe his dose of paxil needs to be taken up. 25mg doesn't sound like much ... started having panic attacks. out of the blue. the paxil controlled the attacks, but caused weight gain. i...
... who dont want to get better, to be blunt about it.
paxil and other antidepressants simply dont work at all ... in about 30% of cases and the paxil should be swapped for another antidepressant, if a ... paxil type one is got, then the swap can be made overnight...
- Help for social anxiety? 17th September 2003
... more spacey than i normaly do. The doc tried to push Paxil on me, but i'm too chicken to try it after reading...
... valium type med such as xanax may suit you better, paxil would be worth trying, it often helps, see their website...
- bllod pressure and anxiety / panic 17th September 2003
... this whole cycle of misery two years ago)
I went on Paxil two years ago after convincing myself I had colon ... and a result of stress / anxiety, etc.
Anyway, the Paxil took care of me, snapped me out of the cycle of thought ... life, and suddenly I went from 175 when I started Paxil to 215. In turn, my cholesterol went to hell, and ... needed to lose the weight. She said if I stopped the Paxil , exercised, etc. I would. So, about five months ago ... , I weened off the Paxil and felt great for a couple months. After four months ... even though the doc said it was normal to lose the Paxil weight once the metabolism returned to normal, weight ... freaked out basically, and immediately went back on Paxil .
It has now been almost three weeks, and the days...
... hit hard with all this two years ago, after I was on Paxil a few weeks, it all went away. Now, It's been three...
- Other Anti-Anxiety Meds? 16th September 2003
...
There are people that swear by the SSRI's...like Paxil and Zoloft...I got the bright idea once that I wanted...
- when will this ever go away??? 15th September 2003
... im on paxil for having panic attacks and i have been on it for...
... you may be better swapping to another paxil type med, also exercise more and get some books or...
- when will this ever go away??? 15th September 2003
... im on paxil for having panic attacks and i have been on it for...
... To PM, the paxil may be partly responsible, try upping the dose to ... if it works better, otherwise maybe swap to another paxil type med, there are many
recovery is always helped...
- IF YOU'RE THINKING OF TAKING PAXIL... 14th September 2003
... weird effect when I was on zannex (or it may have been paxil ) where I'd wake up exactly at 5:00 AM and could not...
... If someone wants to know what Paxil is like...it's not good at all. First of all I tried ... then they may have a slight idea about the effects of Paxil . In my opinion, it is a VERY bad, weird, and an altogether...
... I have been on paxil cr 25mg for 2 months and have yet to even notice a...
... doctor if he didn't explain the side effects. I was on Paxil and it worked wonders for me. My doctor sat me down ... hour and told me everything there is to know about Paxil and it's side effects while taking it and those that ... jitters and twitching are very common side effects of Paxil and while it may not work for some, it does work great ... learn to manage my life without meds. I have now been Paxil free for almost 2 years but if I needed to, I would...
... I think that just because one drug Paxil in this case, didnt or doesnt work for you, doesnt ... for anyone. But......it may be worth it. I found Paxil did not work for me either (it just plain did nothing...
... posted by Beth*:
I think that just because one drug Paxil in this case, didnt or doesnt work for you, doesnt ... for anyone. But......it may be worth it. I found Paxil did not work for me either (it just plain did nothing...
... hadn't subsided within a few months though. I was on paxil for about a year, i had those damn electric shock...
... such a bad time, pauline. it sounds awful.
i was on paxil for only a few weeks several years ago, and felt nauseous ... person makes another worse.
anyway, it sounds like paxil is definitely not doing you any good and it's good...
- ok, but I'm still feeling anxious! 14th September 2003
... depression, without anxiety/panic symptoms.
I've found Paxil to be VERY helpful with those symtoms, and it is marketed...
- Muscle Twitches and Generalized Anxiety Disorder 12th September 2003
... had the same exact problem. If you saw my post on Paxil , the "medical problem" I mentioned was generalized ... doctor assumed it was anxiety related and said the Paxil would take care of it == WRONG! It is this Benign...
- Has anyone heard of anxiety like this 9th September 2003
... worse. My next diagnosis was anxiety so I was put on paxil l, and even though I have had several attacks like ... dizziness seems to be going away. I dont think the paxil has anything to do with that, I am still wondering ... these problems and if it is anxiety why hasnt the paxil started to work. Have any of you ever had problems...
... from the medication you were taking.
My b/f is on paxil cr and they are going to have to up the dosage because ... improvements) and he is on Ativan for the panic attacks. Paxil can actually cause panic attacks at first.
There...
- Has anyone heard of anxiety like this 9th September 2003
... worse. My next diagnosis was anxiety so I was put on paxil l, and even though I have had several attacks like ... dizziness seems to be going away. I dont think the paxil has anything to do with that, I am still wondering ... these problems and if it is anxiety why hasnt the paxil started to work. Have any of you ever had problems...
... I had a similar experience after 4 days on paxil . Woke up in the middle of the night feeling like I ... nothing. Doc said it was all anxiety and put me on paxil . Like I said, I lasted 4 days before I started really...
- constant worrying 9th September 2003
... a therapist right now, and I'm hoping to get some paxil or something. I heard that stuff works really well...
- trouble remembering things 7th September 2003
... Hi everyone. I've been on paxil cr for about 6 months. My dosage now is one pill a ... Has anyone experienced this side effect while on paxil cr? Does it go away? Because I ready to go off the...
... definately be a side effect of your meds. I was on Paxil for a while and it just did NOT work for me. I am...
- New to this board 7th September 2003
... case I ever have to stop. My doc wants to try me on paxil , but I've heard bad horror stories about the withdrawal...
... for a while but should only be taken when needed
paxil type meds often help but can have early side effects ... seldom a problem, there are many others similar to paxil , prozac, lexapro that arent known for paxil's withdrawl...
- xanax vs. klonopin??? 6th September 2003
... doctors keeps suggesting to put me on an antidepressant ( paxil ), but i'm reluctant to change to anything. I wish...
- Anxiety Program 6th September 2003
... healthy. Any good meds out their for anxiety? I was on paxil once for social phobia, but it was hell to get off...
- Chronic Depression won't go away!? Elavil? 5th September 2003
... Serzon (off market now)
Prozac (almost committed me)
Paxil (Men, what are they and why!!! No Labido)
Wellbutrin...
- lorazepam? 3rd September 2003
... his anxiety and it helps calm him down. But also on paxil cr that doesn't seem to be helping. Ativan does make...
- SSRI's what to do? 3rd September 2003
... I was put on paxil CR 12.5 back in Feb for GAD and panic disorder. Getting...
... Worst mistake of my life!
I tried both Zoloft and Paxil , first day on the Zoloft was HELL!
My arms and legs ... tongue started to swell up....same thing with the Paxil .
I wouldn't try another SSRI if my life depended on...
- What might doctor's be missing??? 3rd September 2003
... drinking for a month this February while I was on Paxil , but I couldn't really tell if there was a difference...
- What could happen?? 28th August 2003
... hello everyone..
I've been off paxil for about a week, and i want to try st. john's wort ... supposed to wait 2 weeks... but i was only taking 12.5 of paxil .. if that.. i was cutting 25 mg pills in half.. I...
- HELP!! NEW TO PAXIL CR 12.5 28th August 2003
... any board as a matter of fact, my dr started me on paxil cr 12.5 and ativan as needed.. i started taking it ... seeing all the bad things people have to say about paxil cr,has anyone had anything good come outa paxil cr ... bad..geeeshhhhh please someone help me and tell me paxil isnt as bad as some people say it is
Hi chicago1025 ... I too am from Chicago lol and I just took my first Paxil CR this morning (12.5mg). I took regular Paxil in ... cause I had stated drinking and stopped taking the paxil for the most part. Just recently I tried Wellbutrin...
... over with lol day 3 has to be better,just hope the paxil cr helps me with the G.A.D god knows nothing else ... and let me know how things are going with u on the paxil cr...take care...
... i've been on paxil cr 37.5 for 4 months now and i wouldn't say anything ... i eat a little bit) although when i first starting paxil , i got hungry at weird times and wasn't hungry when ... both of which have improved since i have been on paxil . it's definitely true that everyone is different...
... to me,but however sadly to say i had to go off the paxil just after 4 days, it was really aweful for me, i...
... Hi everyone,
I just started paxil cr 12.5 and I was wondering if there were any more...
... I have been on paxil cr for about 6 weeks for anxiety?ocd/depression. ... especially after reading so many posts of how awful paxil could be, but I also found some encouraging posts...
- severe anxiety and depression 27th August 2003
... You could ask him for Paxil . It is very good for anxiety, but it takes a long ... prescribe Xanax with it to take the edge off, because on Paxil ,the anxiety can get WORSE before it gets better. But...
... You could ask him for Paxil . It is very good for anxiety, but it takes a long ... prescribe Xanax with it to take the edge off, because on Paxil ,the anxiety can get WORSE before it gets better. But...
... sorry to hear about your situation. I myself take paxil .. but i am going off of it. I am not a doctor of ... herbs to start w/ rather than a perscription like paxil . If nothing else works.. than i would go with the ... paxil . St. johns wort works for some. Also valerian root...
... years ago I was taking paxil for depression and it did help me alot then but i...
- social anxiety + period 27th August 2003
... I've been diagnosed with SAD and been on Paxil for about a year. It seems to be working great, but...
- should I???? 27th August 2003
... life,thought I was gonna die! So, when I switched to Paxil , I made sure to start on a very low dose (10 mg.) ... problems with Zoloft, and have much less trouble with Paxil ...
Liz...
... s a trial and error thing.
Since Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil and effexor are all SSRI's, why don't you try Wellbutrin...
- Does anyone else experience this? 25th August 2003
... now but can't say it helps a lot. They prescribed Paxil also, but sincerely I hate being on drugs, so didn...
- weird lightheaded feeling 24th August 2003
... panic attack. I don't understand, I'm on 37.5mg of paxil cr and there's still problems. I don't know if it...
- panic attacks and migraine 22nd August 2003
... i had one back in 1998 but have since then been on paxil for depression and i hear it is also good for panic...
... welcome,
you have been on paxil a long time and perhaps it has stopped working, it...
- on fluoxetine, any good ? 22nd August 2003
... Dear Bev,
I am on Paxil (paroxetine), which is a slightly different class...
- Anxiety Realted? 21st August 2003
... of messed up lately, too. I don't know if it's the Paxil , or the fact that I 'm on antibiotics almost every...
... about gaining massive amounts of weight from taking Paxil , though. At first, it kind of took away my appetite...
... bigger than what you mentioned (you mentioned 7, lol). Paxil bad for weight gain? I remember reading a couple people...
... tell me to come back in about a month ago about the Paxil , so I guess that's prob. why...I never went back for...
- anxiety or labyrinthitis ? 20th August 2003
... anxiety/depression medication? I'm currently taking Paxil and Remeron but I do not feel it is helping me that...
... worse with all the anxiety so my dr started me on paxil cr 12.5 yesterday with antivan as needed... sure hope ... this paxil works for me sure am reading alot of bad about the...
- mental institutions... 16th August 2003
... you are going through, but a good ssri (like Zoloft, Paxil , Effexor, etc.) REALLY does help. Try a different...
... WONDERFUL!!!
As for the SSRIs, I've had great results from Paxil myself, but mostly because it's helped to stop the...
... medications and refused to take them but i'm now on paxil cr, since i almost wrecked my car (had a bad attack...
... hospitals and i live close by one also. Anyways i took paxil and prozac a few years ago and they didnt work but...
- question about Xanax... 14th August 2003
... I am willing to pay for my "freedom"! I have tried Paxil before and was amazed that it actually made me feel...
... paxil and the other antidepressants often make people more...
- i feel like i am going crazy 13th August 2003
... i have been on paxil for like 5 months now and it has controlled my attacks...
... can say is to tell the doctor that prescribed the Paxil for you. If it's more your mental state then I would...
... at times, it could be depression perhaps, maybe the paxil if the dose was upped would help, paxil often reduces...
- message to hry33 12th August 2003
... this time I could handle it? I started slowly on the Paxil , and built up to the 20 mg. I'm currently on. I really ... like the Paxil , I'm very calm, hopeful, peaceful, etc. but, I am...
... fact, I think it's a testament to how much good the Paxil has been for me that you could think I didn't need ... overwheming for me. I kind of felt "broken down" before the Paxil , now I feel I'm recovering. And, most importantly...
... anxiety attacks, not as bad as some on here---but the Paxil has REALLY been helping with that. I've taken Xanax...
... you could swap to another antidepressant of the paxil type and see if it doesnt cause fatigue, zoloft is ... a SSRI or paxil type...
... Talk to your doctor about it. Maybe you could take Paxil for a year with naps every day, then taper off and...
... Although I am happy with the results I am getting with Paxil , I am wondering...what is it like when you go off...
- Should Lexapro help my anxiety? 12th August 2003
... have been on on a few different things now, first Paxil , which killed my sex drive and my ability to have...
- Social Anxiety Disorder/Social Phobia 12th August 2003
... but probably you are a bit young for them, see the paxil website, this is one of them...
... frequently that I decided to go back to the doctor. I am on Paxil and it has made a big difference! I even get up and ... around one time of the month- but I wouldn't go off Paxil for anything!
Yes, some people can do without meds...
... how long was it untill you noticed the effects of paxil ?...
- Is This REALLY anxiety? 10th August 2003
... And no one can seem to figure it out.
I've been on Paxil and Effexor previously, but they didnt work and really...
- numbness? RSI? Zoloft? I wish I knew what was wrong! 10th August 2003
... mother died i started experiencing panic attacks. paxil worked very well for me, but caused major weight gain...
- managing weight gain from antidepressant meds 9th August 2003
... the fatigue thing, and she said that when she was on Paxil , she also got Wellbutrin to counteract some of the ... "downer" effects of the Paxil . You seem to know quite a bit about these things. ... Would the Paxil still help with anxiety, and is it safe to take both...
- Is 12.5mg Paxil CR enough? Does anyone take just 12.5???? 9th August 2003
... I started out on Paxil 12.5mg too, but gradually went to 37.5mg. I felt good...
... To Hry33: The lowest dosage of Paxil CR is 12.5, not 20. You may be thinking of just plain ... Paxil.
I have been on Paxil CR 12.5 since mid-February for GAD, and I remember ... again after a week or two I felt much better, like the Paxil was working. Remember it does take 4-6 weeks for ... or react to stress. That's what I like about the Paxil CR - I still feel like a person, I'm not numb to emotions...
... I started on Paxil Cr 12.5 and went right up the ladder...25 and now...
- paxil and vision 8th August 2003
... suggest you stop the neurontin and go back to the old paxil dose for a while and see what happens.
neurontin...
... I have been taking Paxil for a month and a half, and have not had any problems...
... I have no vision side effects from the 30 mg's of Paxil I'm on....
... Hi, I am new to this board. I have been on paxil for about 6 months and I too experience problems reading ... the problem. I believe one of the side affects of paxil is possibly a problem with your vision. ...
... all the input. Well, after dropping back to 25 mg Paxil for about a week, my vision has returned to normal ... . Guess it was just too much Paxil for me....
- anyone on paxil 8th August 2003
... climb out of the hole by myself, I decided to try Paxil . I started out with a low dose (10 mg.) which didn ... I started out on 50 mg. So when I asked my doc for Paxil , I asked to start slow on a low dose. I think that...
... Hi,
I was on paxil for 6 years and recently quit because of the weight ... had 3 surgeries for it. During the time I was on paxil , I never had any pain in the joint. Now that I am...
... Quick question about Paxil and weight gain:
How long did it take to start gaining...
... zinkmom,
Paxil does have side effects for some and it is famous for...
... I have been on Paxil for about 6 months and have put on close to 20 pounds ... which really upsets me. I do have to say though that Paxil has turned my life around in all other areas and I...
... finally had to give in to the idea. And I agreed to try Paxil . I'm still in the search for what works great for ... anxiety with any of the medications I've been on, but Paxil seemed to do best for both depression and anxiety ... a side effect that happens to you or bothers you, Paxil has been the best for me so far. My life has been ... to be very short and aggressive towards people, but Paxil really took the edge off. I like myself much better...
- Psychologist and Psychiatrists 8th August 2003
... on an SSRI".
I said no thanks, I tried Zoloft and Paxil in the past and they freaked me out so bad that it ... take costs $6.50 for thirty pills, the Zoloft and Paxil were almost $50.00 for 15 pills, could that be the...
- anxiety/stress and tmj 7th August 2003
... moments of real anxiety. He is recommending that I take Paxil . Any thoughts. I seem to get these headaches, facial...
... when asleep help a bit
an antidepresssant such as paxil should reduce the anxiety and hopefully therefore...
... I have been on Paxil CR 25 mg for 2 1/2 mo. Before the medication and...
- How do you know if you need a higher dosage of Paxil CR??? 7th August 2003
... having lost my job after moving and just starting Paxil a month before I became unemployed. You might want...
... hi jersey girl, the usual paxil dose range is 20 to 40, yours would have been a low ... starting dose, upping to 20 should help, I think the paxil isnt yet working fully for you
also remember to try...
... I went from Paxil 20 mg's , to Paxil 30 mg's to see if it would help.
Being that I just...
- hungry all the ttime on Paxil CR? 4th August 2003
... apetite, you are probably still getting used to the paxil and it may stop soon
however if you gain lots of weight...
... i have been on paxil cr for about 4 months now and have always been quite ... eater." i do remember when i first started taking paxil , my appetite was completely out of whack. it gets...
- Fear of answering phone 2nd August 2003
... internet. You might want to try an antidepressant like Paxil , which is especially good for social anxiety. You...
- Help me decide which med to use for SAD 1st August 2003
... Hello everyone, I've been on Paxil for around 1 year now. I worked upto 40 mgs of it...
... they are probably all about the same, paxil has been heavily advertised for SA...
... i was on paxil for sometime it seemed to help but not as much as...
- Did anyone ever feel this? 1st August 2003
... uncommon with anxiety. I got them when I went on Paxil (which causes anxiety attacks at first) and then when...
... Interesting that you mention the Paxil . I had just started them that week. Does it go away...
... the hot flashes go away but you might sweat a lot. Paxil has LOTS of side effects. I don't know what options ... you might want to consider that too if you are on Paxil for anxiety.
My labyrinthitis is just now starting...
... that I've had a sore throat, too, since I started on Paxil . It feels like swollen glands, but worse on right ... side. I wonder if it's from the Paxil ? I've never had a sore throat this long with no other ... or anything...Just wondering.Any input from other Paxil users? ...
- hi does anyone else..... 24th July 2003
... anxiety disorder, look this up on the net, also see the paxil website, paxil is a med being promoted for this problem...
- Possible drug induced anxiety (Metformin)? 24th July 2003
... anxiety level became intolerable. Last October, I tried Paxil for a few days, and by day 4 I discovered a whole...
