Quote from Stumper:

Hubbles,

If you ask around, and if there are those willing to discuss it with you, you will find that about 50% of those you know have been on anti-depressants for one reason or another. Do you know anyone who has committed suicide?

No - and I also don't know anyone who died of Baycol or Vioxx - but there are still many who did... You're ignoring the fact that the FDA (which is lethargic when it comes to protecting the public) considers them risky enough that they put a black-box warning on them. Some of the recent high-profile shootings (like the recent one by a teenage boy at an Indian reservation) were by children on anti-depressents. I'm sure these drugs help some, but I strongly suspect they, like many other drugs, are grossly over-prescribed due to profit motives.

Quote from Stumper:

Yes, but there is a big difference here. One does research and clinical studies and one does not!

You forgot one other difference, the pharmaceuticals have a tremendous financial influence over the FDA New Drug Approval process (they fund the budget), and pay plenty of perks to doctors to peddle their meds, and also have financial ties to most who conduct the 'clinical trials'. The financial conflicts of interest are legion, and even the US Congress realizes this and is working on legislation to put 'public safety' back into the drug-approval process...

Stumper - I realize that there are plenty of good drugs that have saved or improved countless lives. But there are also some out there that are dangerous, or being grossly overprescribed to the wrong people, and the pharmas know it, and are withholding the evidence from the public, with the tacit approval of the FDA, NIH and others in the medical profession.

Sure - there are plenty of 'bad' supplements out there, and plenty of 'quacks' in the field, but there also are studies that indicate many supplements are beneficial. The pharmaceutical industry is lobbying to do all they can to tarnish and eliminate supplements, or better yet, have them reclassified as drugs so that they can control them and sell them at much inflated prices and profits...

Like Deep-Throat said 'Follow the Money'. THere is so much money in prescription drugs today that the system is ROTTEN WITH FINANCIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST...

The profits in drugs make the profits in supplements look like a kids lemonade stand by comparison...

HubbleRules
:cool:

[QUOTE]=HubbleRules]No - and I also don't know anyone who died of Baycol or Vioxx - but there are still many who did... You're ignoring the fact that the FDA (which is lethargic when it comes to protecting the public) considers them risky enough that they put a black-box warning on them. Some of the recent high-profile shootings (like the recent one by a teenage boy at an Indian reservation) were by children on anti-depressents. I'm sure these drugs help some, but I strongly suspect they, like many other drugs, are grossly over-prescribed due to profit motives.


Hubbles,

Anti-depressants don't just help some, they help tremendously. I mean tremendously. They are often just short of miraculous.
Ask around. Individuals usually do not like to discuss if they take anti-depressants, unless its on a forum , of course. :D For some reason many people that you know may find it somewhat uncomfortable to do so probably because it involves mental issues. No-one likes to discuss these sort of things unless they are very open and feel they can trust you. But you would be surprized to learn of many women when they reach menopause that need them due to depression. Or you might be interested to discover that your gas station attendant uses them or hosts of people you see every day. I just recently learned that a self employed mechanic I had known for years had to use them for about two years. Why? He said he became so depressed he could no longer run his business. He became afraid of people nd only wanted to sit home in a "safe place". He knew he had a problem, sought a psychiatrist, was given the proper anti-depressants and anxiety meds and he said in *one* weekend he was back to work on Monday feeling so much better and functional.
I am not ignoring the FDA warnings on anti-depressants. It is true that if they are misused they can have an opposite affect just like any other med. Usually this can occur if one was to use to much of one. But a good doctor will know how much is needed.
I know of a man I work with whose son slashed his wrists in High School. Yes, he tried to kill himself. This man got him to a Psychiatrist, he was put on Paxil for two years and it indeed helped him through his tuff times. He is now in his early 20's and no longer needs it and is doing fine.
My future possible Son-in-law told me that one morning he could not get out of bed, He was disfunctional and disoriented. He did not know why but he just couldn't go to work. He went to a Psychiatrist and was put on Paxil and now goes to work, full time, and is doing great again.
Sorry Hubbles, but herbs or vites won't cut it in these cases. It takes serious meds.
I will guarantee you that many people you see every day of your life are on these, I will guarantee it, you just don't know it. :D, because they are doing so well on them :D And I am sure that none of them plan on suicide, or killing someone.



[quote]You forgot one other difference, the pharmaceuticals have a tremendous financial influence over the FDA New Drug Approval process (they fund the budget), and pay plenty of perks to doctors to peddle their meds, and also have financial ties to most who conduct the 'clinical trials'. The financial conflicts of interest are legion, and even the US Congress realizes this and is working on legislation to put 'public safety' back into the drug-approval process...


This is rediculous. Would you prefer that the only things available to us is herbs and vites in a serious condition of health?
Is that what you want a doctor to give you when you go in for a serious illness? Or would you want something that works? I prefer something that works and works fast.
Penecillin is still an absolute wonder, and many of the antibiotics. Thank God for these drugs. If we did not have simple vacinations many of us would would not be posting here right now.


[quote]Stumper - I realize that there are plenty of good drugs that have saved or improved countless lives. But there are also some out there that are dangerous, or being grossly overprescribed to the wrong people, and the pharmas know it, and are withholding the evidence from the public, with the tacit approval of the FDA, NIH and others in the medical profession.

How are they witholding info? All you have to do is read the insert on the med and it gives all the clinical trials and possible side affects.



[quote]Sure - there are plenty of 'bad' supplements out there, and plenty of 'quacks' in the field, but there also are studies that indicate many supplements are beneficial. The pharmaceutical industry is lobbying to do all they can to tarnish and eliminate supplements, or better yet, have them reclassified as drugs so that they can control them and sell them at much inflated prices and profits...

Yes, I agree. If you find a study (genuine) that indicates certain supplements are beneficial then they may ideed be beneficial.



[quote]Like Deep-Throat said 'Follow the Money'. THere is so much money in prescription drugs today that the system is ROTTEN WITH FINANCIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST...
The profits in drugs make the profits in supplements look like a kids lemonade stand by comparison...



Yes, the profits may be greater, and so is the reasearch and studies and so is the results. :D